Spitfire List Web site and blog of anti-fascist researcher and radio personality Dave Emory.

For The Record  

FTR #500 Conversation with Sander Hicks and Allan Duncan

Dave Emory’s entire lifetime of work is available on a flash drive that can be obtained here. (The flash drive includes the anti-fascist books available on this site.)

Recorded February 27, 2005
MP3 Side 1 | Side 2

Randy Glass holding Stinger missile

Introduction: This interview highlights the work of investigator, social worker and ex-cop Allan Duncan and publisher/author Sander Hicks. Setting forth the story of counter-terror sting “Operation Diamondback,” the program presents the stunning forecast of the 9/11 attacks recorded by the FBI in 1999. Apparent Pakistani intelligence agent R.G. Abbas (while attempting to procure weaponry for Al Qaeda and the Taliban) disclosed that the World Trade Center towers were “coming down.” Stingman Randy Glass was “wearing a wire” and Abbas’ statement was recorded! Nonetheless, few news media have reported this. After reviewing information about Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff and his connections to Bin Laden collaborator Dr. Magdy El-Amir, the program presents Randy Glass’ assertion that Abbas and his associates Diaa Moshen and Mohamed (Mike) Malik were interested in procuring nuclear weaponry for Al Qaeda. Glass reported his information about the impending attack on the World Trade Center to Florida Senator Robert Graham in July of 2001. When Glass relayed his information to the State Department in the summer of 2001, a top aide to Colin Powell disclosed that it was known that a plan was afoot to fly airplanes into the World Trade Center, but that Glass couldn’t discuss it.

Program Highlights Include: Terrorist weapons-supplier Diaa Moshen’s claim that he possessed a “special passport” that enabled him to come and go with impunity; the unusually light treatment accorded Moshen and Mike Malik after they were apprehended as part of Operation Diamondback.

Sander Hicks can be reached through Vox Pop and
Drench Kiss Media Corporation
1022 Cortelyou Road
Flatbush, Brooklyn 11218

Allan Duncan, who lives in New Hope, PA, can be reached at: ADuncan282@aol.com

1. After discussion of the operational links between Department of Homeland Security head Michael Chertoff and Dr. Magdy El-Amir, guests Sander Hicks and Allan Duncan further developed the story of Operation Diamondback. (For more about the relationship between Chertoff and Dr. El-Amir, see FTR#’s 495, 499.) Operation Diamondback was the sting operation that revealed some of Dr. El-Amir’s links to the milieu of Osama bin Laden. That operation featured Randy Glass as the operative posing as an arms dealer doing business with terrorists. In relating the story of Randy Glass, Allan and Sander set forth a chilling account of a meeting that took place in July of 1999 at the Tribeca Grill in Manhattan. Glass (acting as an undercover sting man for the FBI) was meeting with a Rhulum G. Abbas, an agent of the Pakistani intelligence service, the ISI.

 . . . At a dinner in June 1999 at the Tribeca Grill, Glass was wining and dining Rhulum G. Abbas, a Pakistani arms dealer and his friends. Glass and ATF agent Dick Stoltz were posing as weapons brokers, as part of a Federal sting operation. The Pakistani had close connections to the Pakistani intelligence elite, the ISI. In fact, Glass later told Dateline he believed Abbas was an ISI agent. . .

(A chapter of Sander Hicks’ forthcoming book The Big Wedding [e-mailed to Mr. Emory and partially reprinted here with the permission of the author]; pp. 1-2.)

2. At the meeting, Abbas made a chilling disclosure: that the World Trade Center towers were “coming down.”

The tony Tribeca Grill, owned by Robert DeNiro, was just north of the World Trade Center in 1999. Abbas boasted to his dinner companions that he wouldn’t have any problem taking out the entire downtown restaurant. ‘Because it’s full of Americans.’ Towards the end of the meal, he gestured out towards the Twin Towers. ‘Those towers are coming down.’ [Emphasis added.]

(Ibid.; p. 2.)

3. Abbas’s foreshadowing of the WTC attacks was omitted from NBC’s “Dateline” show. Only The Palm Beach Post carried the account:

Although Glass told ‘Dateline’ this story, it wasn’t broadcast. The only media to report it was The Palm Beach Post, on October 17, 2002: ‘In August 2001, just before Glass started to serve a seven-month sentence for a $6 million jewelry scam, he said he reached out to Sen. Bob Graham and U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler. He said he told staffers for both lawmakers that a Pakistani operative working for the Taliban known as R.G. Abbas made three references to imminent plans to attack the World Trade Center during the probe, which ended in June 2001. At one meeting at New York’s Tribeca Grill caught on tape, Abbas pointed to the World Trade Center and said, ‘Those towers are coming down,’ Glass said.’


4. “ ‘Dateline’ used Glass in a follow-up piece five months later, but still failed to mention the crucial details about Abbas. I was eager to get Randy Glass on INN World Report and go where ‘Dateline’ and Sy Hersh feared to tread. R.G. Abbas and the ISI had their paw prints all over 9/11. The Times of India and French News Agency AFP had reported that the head of ISI, General Mahmood, wired $100,000 to Mohamed Atta, through Saed Sheikh, right before 9/11. But no U.S. media outlet ever reported this. It was common knowledge that the ISI and the CIA have been in bed together since Afghanistan’s Mujahideen/Soviet civil war. (As we’ll see in a subsequent chapter, Pakistani intrigue and intelligence created the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, which partnered with the CIA to create a $20 billion empire of corruption and covert ops.)

(Ibid.; pp. 2-3.)

5. One of the operatives “stung” by Randy Glass was Egyptian arms dealer Diaa Moshen, who operated in conjunction with Dr. Magdy El-Amir’s brother. (See FTR#’s 495, 499.)

In preparation for my interview, I had Randy overnight us copies of the ‘Dateline NBC’ shows. I was actually pretty impressed. For a selective network news show, they were pretty gutsy. They played tapes Randy had made of Egyptian arms dealer Diaa Moshen talking like Don Corleone, explaining in nervous barks of laughter that his friends the Pakistanis were in cahoots with Osama bin Laden. On surveillance videotape, Moshen and Abbas walk into a warehouse and look at Stinger missiles. Glass is alongside them, playing the part of the wise guy to a hilt. He later told me, ‘I’m an adrenaline junkie. I love the action.’

(Ibid.; p. 3.)

6. In his discussion with Diaa Moshen, Glass elicited a disclosure that Moshen possessed a special passport that enabled him to come and go as he pleased internationally.

Diaa Moshen, according to Glass, was a ‘lunatic capable of killing anybody anytime anywhere, period. And he has, like, Manson type followers. Believe me, you have no idea. I’ve met them, I know.’ Moshen is kind of an evil celebrity in his native Egypt, being a former member of the Egyptian National Soccer Team. On ‘Dateline’, Glass asks him, ‘How do you travel to all of these places without coming up on the radar screen of the CIA or other intelligence agencies in the world? This doesn’t make sense to me.’ Moshen explained that he enjoyed owning a ‘special passport. . . . I enter any fucking country and be protected.’


7. Among the frightening disclosures concerning Operation Diamondback is the allegation that Diaa Moshen was seeking materials to fabricate a nuclear weapon. Specifically, Moshen was seeking deuterium oxide (“heavy water”) in order to facilitate the construction of an atomic bomb.

In the August ’02 ‘Dateline’ story, Moshen and the Pakistanis don’t just want anti-aircraft missiles, they want the hard stuff: ‘heavy water’ a.k.a. ‘sweet water.’ That would be an order for Deuterium Oxide, which is water, H2O, but with scrambled hydrogen isotopes. Heavy water can turn natural uranium into plutonium. It’s the garage way to make a thermonuclear bomb. You bypass having to enrich the Uranium. Heavy Water is what Nazi Germany was trying to use during World War II. And it’s the method the Pakistanis wanted to use, with Glass and Moshen’s supply run.


8. Despite the dire nature of the undertakings in which they were involved, Moshen and his associate Mike Malik received extraordinarily lenient treatment: Moshen got 30 months in prison and Malik was set free. Why?!

Heavy water was ‘the deal breaker.’ Glass promised Moshen they could find some. According to ‘Dateline,’ the deal fell apart when $32 million failed to materialize from the Pakistanis. According to Glass, the $32 million was wired over, but the Feds ‘bounced it back’ in order to not ‘embarrass’ the Pakistani government. After 9/11, Dia Moshen and cohort Mike Malik were arrested. But Mike Malik walked, free on a million dollar bond. Terrorist nuclear weapons broker Diaa Moshen got sentenced to a cool 30 months in prison. ‘The whole thing was a fix.’ Glass says today. . . Although crucial details were left on the cutting room floor by ‘Dateline’, their segment ends with this comment: ‘For his part, Randy Glass says there’s a lot more on those tapes, leads the government could pursue, people still out there only too happy to supply weapons to the network of terror.’

(Ibid.; pp. 3-4.)

9. Operation Diamondback sting man Randy Glass notified Senator Bob Graham about the impending attacks on the World Trade Center in July of 2001. In an online TV program, Sander Hicks interviewed Randy Glass and provided some details about Glass’s attempts at warning the authorities of the impending attack on the World Trade Center.

SANDER HICKS: Which leads me to my next question. I know that you then, in July of 2001, contacted your Senator Bob Graham in Florida, Congressman Wexler, as well as your personal friend, the State Senator there in Florida.


SANDER HICKS: And what was opened from those contacts? Those faxes that you faxed them?

RANDY GLASS: Well, let me just—we’re skipping way ahead—let me just tell you that this meeting was in July of 1999, okay? So, I think it’s very important to note that Abbas, Malik and Moshen came to Florida and we had shown—when I say ‘we,’ the government had set me up with an arms warehouse.

(Ibid.; p. 10.)

10. Glass opined that the ISI (Pakistani intelligence) was a major force behind both Al Qaeda and the 9/11 attacks.

SANDER HICKS: Right, because it was a sting operation trying to find out who the terrorists were that wanted to buy weapons.


SANDER HICKS: And these terrorists were linked to what groups?

RANDY GLASS: To Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Osama bin Laden. But basically if I would have to say that even the Saudis that pulled off the 9/11 attack, if I were to say that there was a state-sponsored organization, I would say that it was Pakistan and their ISI, which is like our equivalent to our CIA.


11. Apparent ISI operative R.G. Abbas (who forecast the destruction of the WTC towers) brought Pakistani nuclear scientific personnel into the attempt to obtain material for a nuclear device. The Pakistani scientist was described as an associate of Mr. Khan, the focal point of the much-publicized international nuclear smuggling ring.

SANDER HICKS: So, which of these three guys had links to ISI?

RANDY GLASS: Mohamed Malik and Abbas. Abbas was a high-ranking ISI official.

SANDER HICKS: Okay. So this led you to some inside knowledge about 9/11, correct?

RANDY GLASS: Oh, absolutely.

SANDER HICKS: What was your inside knowledge?

RANDY GLASS: Okay, the investigation continued on, okay? And Abbas brought—sent—he went back to Pakistan. He and Mohamed Malik got on a plane and flew back to Pakistan. Malik came back. Abbas sent other operatives from the ISI including one of their nuclear scientists, associate of their main nuclear scientist, Khan. He sent back one of his associates to inspect weapons-grade plutonium to make sure that it was weapons-grade plutonium and nuclear triggers. As well as other sophisticated weapons systems. 9/11 was supposed to be a nuclear attack.

(Ibid.; p. 11.)


SANDER HICKS: July, 2001, you knew enough about 9/11—


SANDER HICKS: That you contacted Senator Bob Graham.

SANDER HICKS: I have the fax here on my desk.


SANDER HICKS: We’ll show it on screen.


SANDER HICKS: And you knew enough about the World Trade Center being attacked that you wanted to contact the Senator at—who was on the Senate Intelligence Committee and let him know.

RANDY GLASS: Correct. And I did.

SANDER HICKS: What was the result of that?

RANDY GLASS: I was put in touch with one of Senator Graham’s workers in his—on his staff. His name was Charles Yonts. And I spoke to Mr. Yonts about a half a dozen times. I provided him with all of the information and material that I had about airplanes being flown into the World Trade Center.

SANDER HICKS: Right. And then I know Kathleen Walters at WPTV/NBC. Channel 5 in Florida, had a very combative interview with Senator Graham.

(Ibid.; pp. 11-12.)

13. After 9/11, Florida TV reporter Kathleen Walters had a testy confrontation with Senator Graham over his foreknowledge of the attacks:

SANDER HICKS: She cornered him at a press conference?

RANDY GLASS: Yes. This was after 9/11.

SANDER HICKS: And we’re about to see a tape of that. What can you tell use about this tape?

RANDY GLASS: Well, I can tell you that Senator Graham admitted to Kathleen Walters on that video that I had in fact given him warning before 9/11 about the attack, about airplanes being flown into the World Trade Center.

SANDER HICKS: Okay, now that’s major. So, on that tape that we’re about to see, he effectively admits that you did, in July of 2001, know about 9/11 and notified him, a U.S. Senator of the Senate Intelligence Committee.


(Ibid.; p. 13.)


KATHLEEN WALTERS: A few months before September 11, your office received information from ATF informant Randy Glass who was working with the Terrorism Task Force and he also advised your office that terror contentions to bring down the World Trade Center. And this was before September 11th.




KATHLEEN WALTERS: Your office tells me it forwarded information from Mr. Glass to the Intelligence Committee and my question is, why did no one from the Committee follow up with Mr. Glass to pursue this?

SENATOR GRAHAM: Well because we in turn gave that information to the appropriate intelligence agency. We are an oversight and legislative agency. The actual operations of collection of information, interviewing possible sources is the responsibility of the FBI if it’s a domestic matter, or the CIA if it’s foreign.

KATHLEEN WALTERS: How serious were, you know, when you heard about Mr. Glass and the information he had, obviously got a lot of exposure on ‘Dateline.’ How big of a concern did you personally have when you heard about this serious information that he had?”

(Ibid.; p. 14.)


SENATOR GRAHAM: Well, I was concerned about that and a dozen other pieces of information, which were emanating in the summer of 2001. All of which we transmitted to the appropriate intelligence agency. In the report that we issued this week, there were four to five pages of incidents where people were [indistinct] credible to use commercial airliners as weapons of mass destruction by flying them into a building. So that was not, or should have not have been a surprise that this was a technique that had the potential of moving from a threat to the reality that it became on September 11th. . . .


17. “Later that week, I called Randy back to go over some facts so I could write a proper introduction. It was the day of the broadcast, a sunny Friday, and Randy dropped a bomb in my lap. The story he told me then made me wish there had been more time at INN. But now, in book form, the story can be unfolded at the careful pace it deserves. I had questions about the fax that Randy had shown me, the July 2001 letters to Senator Graham’s office, and Representative Wexler. I asked Glass why he told Senator Graham he was gravely concerned, ‘I’ve told you repeatedly about my terrorist case—the sophisticated weapons system—nuclear components—the threats of blowing up the World Trade Center and who knows what else. These people hate Americans. This information I’ve gotten from the State Department about the airplanes being used. . . .’ Wait a minute. We were talking about Pakistani spy-terrorists. Since when are we talking about the ‘State Department?’”

(Ibid.; pp. 15-16.)

18. In a stunning development, a State Department official contacted by Randy Glass revealed that elements of the government knew about the plan to fly planes into the World Trade Center.

Glass said, ‘The only information that the terrorists—the guys ever talked about –was just the World Trade Center. They didn’t ever say anything to me or to Dick, to my knowledge, that airplanes were going to be used. The State Department guy told me that. In other words, I called up and I bluffed him. I called up and I don’t know what they knew that I knew. I just knew that America was going to be attacked. I didn’t know if it was going to be the World Trade Center or what it was going to be. These people had talked about purchasing these weapons to use against us.

(Ibid.; p. 16.)

19. Pakistan’s status as an ally in the “war on terror” (!) led to the State Department’s sanitizing of any mention of Pakistan or of the fact that the terrorists Glass had targeted were seeking nukes.

A little later, I interrupted Glass and threw him a curveball to see what he’d say—‘When Dick Stoltz on ‘Dateline’ says stuff like, ‘Well, gee, we really thought that FBI or CIA would take over this case.’ Is it possible that the reason that the CIA didn’t take over this case is because the CIA has been working with Pakistani intelligence?’ Glass replied, ‘Of course. That was the whole thing. . . .the State Department was the vehicle that was used to shut down the case. . . So when I called the State Department—because I knew they were the ones who ordered the case shut down. . .The State Department orders the complaint sanitized, and Barbarini [another ATF agent who worked with Glass] is all pissed off because he’s the guy given the job to rewrite the complaint and if you look—it’s a public record, you can get if off the internet—and if you look, you’ll see there’s no mention of Pakistan. There’s no mention of us showing them plutonium. There’s no mention that incriminates Pakistan. I mean, Pakistan is not in there one time. And these were all Pakistani people who were here.



HICKS: Was that Chuck or was that the other guy?

GLASS: The other guy.


(Ibid.; p. 17.)

21. “Later Glass stated that the State Department contact said, ‘Musharaf just took over and our position is that they’re a nuclear power and they’ve been flexing their nuclear muscles with India and we are trying to prevent a nuclear catastrophe. And we know about the threat, the terrorist threat, from Al Qaeda and Bin Laden flying airplanes into the World Trade Center. And Musharaf has guaranteed us—because it’s his ISI behind it—that he can stop it if we support him publicly.’


22. “Look Randy, we know you’re a straight guy so we’re going to give you some information. You cannot do two things: You cannot go to the media under any circumstance. This is—we’re playing in a nuclear minefield now. Secondly, you can’t tell the agents that you’re working with now because they’re cut out of the loop. They know nothing.’”


23. Still more indications that elements in the State Department had fairly precise knowledge about the plan to crash planes into the WTC:

GLASS: When I called the State Department, I said to them, ‘Listen, I already know about the World Trade Center.’ So they assumed that I knew more than I did. And I didn’t. I didn’t know anything about airplanes. . . .’

HICKS: So you bluffed and you kind of pretended you knew more than you did and then what did they tell you? GLASS: But I didn’t even have to do that. I just said what I knew. I said ‘Look. Listen, I know the World Trade Center is going to be attacked.’ And then this guy said to me ‘Randy listen, you cannot mention any of these things, especially airplanes being used to fly into the World Trade Center.’ And when he said that I almost fell off of my fucking chair. I mean, you have no idea. I thought I was gonna wear the tape out.”

(Ibid.; p. 18.)

24. “Glass was reticent to talk too specifically about the State Department higher-up. But each time he revealed a little more. Over the course of our talks in December, he revealed that the guy who knew about ‘planes being flown into the World Trade Center’ was one of Colin Powell’s right-hand men. . . .”

(Ibid.; p. 19.)

25. One of the final elements of discussion concerned the promotion of Dave Frasca, an FBI counter-terror official. Despite a dubious record, he was promoted upward.


One comment for “FTR #500 Conversation with Sander Hicks and Allan Duncan”

  1. […] Conversation with Sander Hicks and Allan Duncan This entry was posted in Intelligence, National Security, Terrorism and tagged 9/11, Al-Qaeda, Allan Duncan, CIA, Dave Frasca, Diaa Moshen, Dr El-Amir, FBI, General Mahmood, Heavy Water, ISI, Michael Chertoff, Mohamed Atta, Mohamed Malik, Operation Diamondback, Osama bin Laden, Pakistan, R. G. Abbas, Randy Glass, Sander Hicks, Tribeca Grill. Bookmark the permalink. ← John Perkins describes his job as « economic hitman » for the corporations […]

    Posted by Learn more about Operation Diamondback with Sander Hicks and Allan Duncan on For The Record | Lys-d'Or | August 14, 2012, 11:13 am

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