Spitfire List Web site and blog of anti-fascist researcher and radio personality Dave Emory.

For The Record  

FTR #635 and #636 Going Native, Parts V and VI

FTR #635 Audio
MP3: Side 1 | Side 2

FTR #636 Audio
MP3: Side 1 | Side 2

Waffen SS veteran Herbert Schweiger: Activist for South Tyrolean Independence

These broadcasts bring to consummation the line of analysis undertaken by Mr. Emory in the Going Native series. Ambitious and vitally important, these programs detail a Third Reich political strategy perpetuated and enlarged upon by the “new” Federal Republic of Germany. After examining how “volksgruppenrechte” (the rights of native peoples) is being used to realize a revanchist national agenda by Germany, the broadcasts analyze how a broader international application of this strategy is being used to destabilize China and how it may very well be used to destabilize the United States in the event of a political and/or economic collapse. In addition, the programs allow us to view the machinations of the cartel system put into effect at the end of World War I—a system that was central to the events culminating in the Second World War and the rise and recapitulation of global fascism after the war’s formal conclusion. (Cartels are international monopolies.)

The first broadcast begins with the topic of Germany’s push for restitution for the Sudeten Germans. A large Germanic minority in pre-World War II Czechoslovakia, the Sudeten Germans formed an effective Fifth Column that helped subvert that country and served as a pretext for Hitler’s incremental annexation of the nation in the run-up to World War II. Following their expulsion after the war, the Sudeten Germans and other ethnic Germans expelled from Eastern Europe became a focal point for the Vertriebene groups. Under the stewardship of post-war elements of the SS, they enjoy the support of the German government, in their drive for financial restitution and territorial repatriation. The Germanic Hungarian minority is also enjoying support from the German government, as well as from the government of its erstwhile World War II ally—Hungary–from which they were expelled at the end of the Second World War. The GfbV (Association for Threatened Peoples) exemplifies the continuity of foreign policy and hegemony from Nazi Germany to the “new” Federal Republic of Germany. Predicated on the use of military force to achieve its aims, the GfbV incorporates Nazi war criminals into its ranks and enjoys the support of the German government in its attempt to ensure autonomy for the ethnic groups it champions. Much of the second program examines the use of “volksgruppenrechte”—the rights of native peoples—to destabilize China. Both the German government and Underground Reich-associated elements of the U.S. State Department are supporting the aims of would-be breakaway minorities such as the Tibetans, the Inner Mongolians and the Muslim, Turkophone Uighurs. These groups, in turn, are championed by the UNPO. Predicated on the theoretical and operational template or organizataions like the GfbV, the UNPO is headed by Austro-Hungarian Empire heir Karl von Hapsburg. Hapsburg is married to Francesca Thyssen-Bornemisza, an heiress to the Thyssen industrial empire, a principal element of the cartel system that dominates the global economic landscape. A Thyssen subsidiary is the intellectual/analytical epicenter of the Peak Oil hypothesis, which provides theoretical underpinning for the spectacular increase in the price of oil. Many of the minorities championed by the UNPO reside in areas rich in natural resources, petroleum and natural gas, in particular. Their “independence” would pave the way for the exploitation of those resources by interests other than the nations in which they currently reside. The program concludes with examination of the UNPO’s support for ethnic groups seeking independence from the United States. The possibility that a United States weakened by economic and/or political catastrophe might be fragmented along lines of what happened to the former Soviet Union is not one to be cast too readily aside. (In addition to these two programs, the Going Native series includes FTRs 550, 615, 616.)

Program Highlights Include: The role of the Peak Oil theory in the valuation of fossil fuel resources in areas of interest to the UNPO–the Bakken Oil Field in territory claimed by the Lakota in particular; review of the Thyssen firm’s acquisition of the I.G. Farben firm’s old Leuna facility; the role of Paula Dobriansky in the destabilization of China; the Ukrainian fascist background of Paula’s father Lev Dobriansky; the role of murderous, pogrom-like attacks perpetrated against ethnic Chinese in Tibet in precipitating the crackdown by Chinese security forces; review of the role of the Uighurs in the destabilization of China; the Hawaiian independence movement’s occupation of the Iolani Palace; the support given to that occupation by Italy’s honorary Consul-General in Hawaii; Manfred Zapka—the strapping German associate of that Consul-General; Zapka’s advocacy of the Peak Oil hypothesis.

1. The first broadcast begins with the topic of Germany’s push for restitution for the Sudeten Germans. A large Germanic minority in pre-World War II Czechoslovakia, the Sudeten Germans formed an effective Fifth Column that helped subvert that country and served as a pretext for Hitler’s incremental annexation of the nation in the run-up to World War II. Following their expulsion after the war, the Sudeten Germans and other ethnic Germans expelled from Eastern Europe became a focal point for the Vertriebene groups. Under the stewardship of post-war elements of the SS, they enjoy the support of the German government. (For more about this, see—among other programs—AFA#37, available from Spitfire.) “Bavarian Prime Minister Guenther Beckstein called Sunday for a dialogue with the Czech government to resolve outstanding issues related to the expulsion of ethnic Germans from Czechoslovakia at the end of World War II . . . Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler forced Czechoslovakia to cede its western Sudetenland region to Germany in 1938, saying German speakers were being persecuted there. Hitler seized the rest of the country in early 1939, ahead of his invasion of Poland in September, which precipitated World War II. . . .”
(“Bavarian Premier Calls for Dialogue on Sudeten German Issue”; Deutsche Welle; 5/11/08.)

2. Hungary’s German population is also the focus of revanchist activity on the part of Germany and its World War II ally Hungary. “The Hungarian National Assembly commemorated the post World War II ‘disenfranchisement and expulsion Hungarian Germans’ on November 16, with the presidents of the German and the European parliaments in attendance. The occasion was a conference on the 60th anniversary of the relocation of the ethnic Germans of Hungary. The conference had been initiated by the social democratic president of the Hungarian Parliament, Katalin Szili. She sees the post war relocation decisions, which were derived from the Potsdam Conference, as ‘documents of shame.’ She also rejects the Czech government’s Benes Decrees and recently called off a visit to Slovakia, because, contrary to Budapest—the parliament in Bratislava did not annul the 1945 relocation decisions. Preceding the November 16 session, the President of the Association of Displaced Persons (Bund der Vertriebenen BdV), Erika Steinbach, awarded Szili with the association’s Medal of Honor. . . . While the EU is progressively drawing closer together, to be better able to globally compete, inside the union, a revisionist alliance is congealing, comprised of the losers of World War II. This provides a glimpse at the internal structures and the hegemonic hub of a future world power.”
(“A Special Relationship”; German-Foreign Policy.com; 11/16/2007.)

3. Germanic minorities in Europe are the focal point of a fascist organization called “The German Association for Threatened Peoples” (GfbV) Exemplifying the German “Volkisch” concept of “Volksgruppenrechte,” the GfbV is a template for other similar organizations, such as the UNPO, discussed below. Its pretensions to the contrary notwithstanding, the GfbV fascist character is exemplified by its incorporation of Nazi war criminals in its ranks. Note that it also advocates the use of military action in support of its aims. “The German Association for Threatened Peoples (GfbV) which describes itself as a ‘human rights organization’ campaigns for the world-wide enforcement of the rights of ethnic groups and the ‘Right to Homeland’ (Heimat). It co-operates with leading organizations influencing German foreign policy, such as the League of Expellees and the Federalist Union of European Peoples’ Organizations. It is closely allied with expansionary German foreign policy under the pretext of ‘advancement of human rights.’ According to the GfbV’s proposals, ‘fundamental human rights’ should be enforced by ‘standing, operationally prepared, military strike forces.’ . . .[Tilman] Zuelch, the political leader of GfbV complains that the Holocaust was given too great a prominence during ‘The Tribunal of the Victors.’ ‘The war crimes of the allied governments’ and ‘the crime of expulsion of the Eastern and Sudeten Germans, which fulfill today’s definition of genocide, remain unatoned for.’ . . . Around the year 1995, it became known that the former Nazi administrator of the Kolomea ghetto in Poland was working for the advisory board of GfbV. He was implicated in co-responsibility for the deaths of 30,000 Jews. . . .”
(“Background Report: The Association for Threatened Peoples (Gesellschaft fuer Bedrohte Voelker—GfbV); German-Foreign Policy.com; 8/14/2002.)

4. Among the large countries threatened with breakup is Russia. Note that the GfbV has supported the independence aspirations of the Islamist Chechens, which have also enjoyed the support of the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda. The Chechens also—not incidentally—have enjoyed the support of the Bush administration. (For more about the Islamist support of the Chechens, see—among other programs—FTR#381.) “President Vladimir Putin said Sunday that there are people in the world who wish to split up Russia and take over its vast natural resources, and others who would like to ‘rule over all mankind,’ a veiled reference to the United States. . . . Many Russians fear that their country’s rapidly declining population and enormous natural wealth could one day leave it vulnerable to outside predators. . . .”
(“Putin Warns of Outside Forces that Wish to Split Russia and Take Over its Natural Resources” [AP]; International Herald Tribune; 11/4/2007.)

5. For The Record #636 expands the focus of the analysis to the ongoing destabilization of China using ethnic minorities such as the Tibetans, the [Muslim] Uighurs and the Inner Mongolians.(For more about this subject, see—among other programs—FTRs 549, 550, 615, 616.) Note that the leader of the Tibetan “Government in Exile”—the Dalai Lama—has collaborated with the Third Reich and its postwar Underground manifestation since 1942, when he was a small boy! He has counted SS officers and Nazi war criminals among his friends and collaborators. According to his former German publishers, he prays daily to a Mongolian war god. For more about the Dalai Lama’s insidious character and associations, see—among other programs—FTR#547.) “Berlin is using the upheaval in the western region of the People’s Republic of China to pursue its campaign of attrition against Beijing. German Chancellor Angela Merkel is demanding that the Chinese government enter a ‘dialog’ with the Dalai Lama, the most famous leader of the Tibetan secessionists. . . .”
(“The Olympic Lever”; German-Foreign-Policy.com; 3/17/2008.)

6. Next, the program highlights more aspects of the destabilization of China, fleshing out the cooperation between elements of the German government and Underground Reich-associated elements within the American government. Of particular note is the fact that the pogrom-like violence of the Tibetans against ethnic Chinese has gone unreported by the Western media. The reaction of the Chinese security forces was a response to these attacks! “Conference reports and the research of a Canadian journalist reveal that a German Foreign Ministry front organization is playing a decisive role in the preparations of the anti-Chinese Tibet campaign. According to this information, the campaign is being orchestrated from a Washington based headquarters. It had been assigned the task of organizing worldwide ‘protests’ at a conference organized by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation (affiliated with German Free Democratic Party-FDP) in May 2007. The plans were developed with the collaboration of the US State Department and the self-proclaimed Tibetan Government in Exile and call for high profile actions along the route of the Olympic Torch Relay and are supposed to reach a climax in August during the games in Beijing. . . . Whereas the German media mainly reported on brutal attacks of the Chinese security forces, eye-witness accounts provide a different picture of what happened. The British journalist, James Miles (The Economist) who was in Lhasa from March 12-19, reports of pogrom-like attacks by Tibetan gangs on non-Tibetan members of the population of the city, among them the Muslim minority. According to Miles, the shops of Tibetan merchants were marked and left unscathed while all other shops were plundered, destroyed or set afire. In one building alone five textile saleswomen were burned to death. Besides Miles, western tourists also described the attacks on non-Tibetans. One Canadian saw how a group of Tibetans beat a Chinese motorcyclist and proceeded to ‘mercilessly’ stone him. ‘Eventually they got him on the ground, they were hitting him on the head with stones until he lost consciousness. I believe that young man was killed,’ reported the tourist. . . .In the case of a successful secession, they [ethnic Chinese] will have to ‘return to China, or if they would like to remain, be treated as foreigners.’ He explained the planned measures: ‘they will, in any case, not be allowed to participate in the political life,’ The prospect of discrimination against all non-Tibetan members of the population was anticipated in mid-March by mobs in their bloody attacks on Chinese and members of the population was anticipated in mid-March by mobs in their bloody attacks on Chinese and members of the Muslim minority.”
(“The Olympic Torch Relay Campaign”; German-Foreign-Policy.com; 4/8/2008.)

7. Elements of the U.S. State Department and Bush administration are working in conjunction with the Germans and the Underground Reich. The State Department’s Tibet desk is maintained by Paula Dobriansky, the daughter of Lev Dobriansky. As discussed in—among other programs—AFA#37—available from Spitfire—Lev Dobriansky (Pauala’s father) was very close to the fascist Ukrainian organization OUN/B. The OUN/B’s operations spanned the pre-World War II and World War II periods, during which it collaborated with the Third Reich, as well as the Cold War and post-Cold War periods, during which it functioned on behalf of the Underground Reich and the CIA. As we see, Paula’s resume includes service to Ronald Reagan’s administrations, the personnel for which were selected by Otto von Bolschwing progtege Helene Von Damm. (For more about the OUN/B, see—among other programs—FTR#529. For more about the Von Damm/Von Bolschwing connection, see—among other programs FTRs 180, 332, 465.) “ . . . Paula Dobriansky, the Undersecretary of State in the U.S. State Department and special coordinator for Tibet questions also participated [in the Brussels conference prepared by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation.] She was a member of the national Security Council already in the Reagan Administration, continued her career in the State Department during the administration of President Bush, Sr. and since 2001 was again in the U.S. foreign ministry. Ms. Dobriansky is considered to be one of the members of the neo-conservative inner circle in the Bush Administration and ranks as a hard-liner capable of imposing policy. . . .” (Idem.)

8. Yet another article from German-Foreign-Policy.com encapsulates the history of Western paramilitary operations in Tibet, as well as the role of the German Green Party in the anti-Chinese conspiracy. (This subject is covered in—FTR#548.) In FTRs 628, 629, we examined the fascist and Nazi infiltration and cooption of the Green Party, particularly in Germany. In that context FTR#622 highlights the German Green Party’s collaboration with the Underground Reich in foreign policy matters—the same dynamic they are pursuing here. “ . . . Using contacts to Tibet by ‘alternative’ political circles, who had converted to Buddhism, the Green parliamentary group, through hearings and parliamentary resolutions, placed the questions of autonomy and the demands for secession in that region of China on the political agenda of the Bundestag in 1985. Tsewang Norbu, a former assistant of the Dalai Lama, helped shape policy on Tibet, first as an employee of the Green parliamentarian Petra Kelly and, since 1992, as an employee of the Green Party affiliated Heinrich Boell foundation. In addition, Norbu founded the German-Tibetan Cultural Society and, over an extended period of time, presided as its vice-chairman. He also works as a ‘special correspondent’ for the US financed ‘Radio Free Asia’ (RFA). RFA is among the news sources of western reporting on the recent uprising in Tibet. . . .”
(“Operations Against China”; German-Foreign-Policy.com; 4/15/2008.)

9. One of the principle elements in the destabilization of China is the UNPO. As noted in—among other programs—FTRs 549, 550, the Uighurs are among the ethnic groups being utilized in the destabilization of China. [The Tibetans and Inner Mongolians are also groups being used to effect the destabilization of China.] Speakers of a Turkic language and religious Muslims, the Uighurs have historical and political involvement with the Underground Reich, the Muslim Brotherhood and Al-Qaeda. Of paramount importance is the fact that the UNPO is headed by Karl von Hapsburg, the heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Von Hapsburg’s father Otto was a member of the Free Rudolph Hess Society. (Hess was Hitler’s deputy). Karl is married to Francesca Thyssen-Bornemisza, heiress to much of the Thyssen fortune.“ German foreign policy makers, are upping their political pressure on Beijing, and holding talks with a Chinese separatist. As the Munich based ‘World Uyghur Congress (WUC)’ announced, its president, Rebiya Kadeer will also be received by the foreign ministry. The Uyghurs, a Muslim minority from the autonomous region Xinjiang (Western China), are seeking the secession of their region ‘East Turkestan’ from the People’s Republic of China. Rebiya Kadeer’s appearance in the German capital has been carefully stage managed for high profile in conjunction with US activities. Following the Dalai Lama’s German Chancellery visit, Berlin has been escalating its anti-Beijing secessionist offensive. For decades, Germany—including foreign intelligence circles—has been cultivating relations to Uyghur exile politicians. . . . This [the Uyghur secessionist movement] is being aided by the ‘Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization (UNPO)’ founded at the beginning of 1991 and based in The Hague. The Dalai Lama and the Uyghur secessionist Alptekin are among the co-founders. 69 ‘nations’ are currently members of this organization, including ‘East Turkestan,’ Tibet and Inner Mongolia. . . .”
(Strategies of Attrition (IV)”; German-Foreign-Policy.com; 10/22/2007.)

10. Emblematic of the true nature of the supposedly “humanistic, progressive” UNPO is the fact that they have incorporated the Afrikaners into their pantheon of “disenfranchised” peoples. As discussed in—among other programs—FTRs 225, 317, 324, the apartheid government of South Africa was a direct offshoot of Nazi Germany. The dominant Afrikaner “Broederbond” society appears, to have gone underground after the fall of the apartheid regime, like the Nazi Party after which it was patterned and with which it was allied during and after World War II. That same apartheid regime also used the I.G. Farben-derived Fischer/Tropsch process to synthesize fuel. The Thyssen/Krupp bought the Leuna facility in the former East Germany, I.G. Farben’s top synthetic fuel refinery during World War II. Note that the UNPO counts the secession of Kosovo as one of its successors. As discussed in—among other programs—FTRs 330, 622, the Kosovo Liberation Army is the direct descendant of the 21st Waffen SS Division (Skanderbeg) and other fascist fighting formations of World War II. “Afrikaners have joined an international organization fighting for the rights of minorities, Freedom Front Plus leader Pieter Mulder said on Monday. The Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization (UNPO), at its General Assembly in Brussels over the weekend, accepted the Afrikaner people as one of its 70 members which include Australia’s Aboriginals, the Masai of Kenya and Tanzania and Tibetan monks. . . . .It counts the recognition of Kosovo as one of its successes.”
(“The Afrikaner Connection; www.iol.co.za; 5/19/2008.)

11. Among the indigenous peoples championed by the UNPO are the native Hawaiians. They have been pursuing independence and recently occupied the Iolani Palace—historical seat of the Hawaiian throne. This occupation was endorsed by the honorary Consul General of Italy, apparently acting on her own. “The so-called ‘Hawaiian Kingdom Government’ made international headlines last week with its takeover of Iolani Palace. But headlines are not the only outside support the Hawaiian Kingdom Government group is receiving. In a February 28, 2008 letter, Honorary Vice-Consul of Italy in Hawaii, Carmen Di Amore-Siah, purports to grant the Hawaii Kingdom Government group recognition by the Government of Italy. . . .”
(“Italian Government Disowns Honolulu Consul Letter Recognizing Hawaiian Kingdom Government” by Andrew Walden [Hawaii Free Press]; Hawaii Reporter; 5/6/2008.)

12. One of the chief aids of Carmen Di Amore-Siah is a strapping German named Manfred Zapka. Are they part of an Underground Reich network, operating in conjunction with Von Hapsburg/Thyssen-Bornemisza et al?
(“Special Reception for Consul General and Marco Ponti”; Midweek; 10/12/2005.)

13. Zapka is an advocate of the Peak Oil theory. In FTR#506, we looked at HIS Energy Services, the epicenter of Peak Oil. That company is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Thyssen-Bornemisza industries. Francesca Thyssen-Bornemisza’s husband Karl von Hapsburg heads the UNPO, which champions Hawaiian independence. “Editor’s note: In the next decade or two, a global energy crisis will be thrust upon us; the changes it brings will be felt first in Hawaii, possibly with a more devastating effect here than in the rest of the world. . . .”
(“Peak Oil Era Will be Hard on Hawaii” by Manfred Zapka and Jim Dator; www.futures.hawaii.edu; 12/13/2006.)

14. The rise in the price of oil has made the Bakken Oil Field in the American plains a hot commercial property. Note that the “Peak Oil” gambit has provided intellectual underpinning for the run-up in oil prices. As highlighted above, the intellectual epicenter of the Peak Oil movement is HIS Energy Services, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Thyssen-Bornemisza industries. The Bakken Oil Field’s viability as a resource has been buttressed by the rise in oil prices, and it lies in a territory claimed by the Lakota as an independent territory. The Lakota independence movement is championed by the UNPO, headed by Francesca Thyssen-Bornemisza’s husband Karl von Hapsburg! If the Lakota are able to successfully effect their independence from the United States, the Bakken Field will be up for grabs. (For more about the Lakota independence movement and the territory it claims as an independent, sovereign nation, see FTR#550. For more about the Lakota’s declaration of sovereignty from the United States, see FTR#631. In the context of the UNPO’s championing of Lakota independence, it is important to recall that Xinjiang province, in which the UNPO-supported Uighurs reside, is also rich in natural resources, including petroleum.) “America is sitting on top of a super massive 200 billion barrel Oil Field that could potentially make America Energy Independent and until now has largely gone unnoticed. Thanks to new technology the Balkan Formation in North Dakota could boast America’s Oil reserves by an incredible 10 times, giving western economies the trump card against OPEC’s short squeeze on oil supply and making Iranian and Venezuelan threats of disrupted supply irrelevant. . . . .”
(“Massive Oil Deposit Could Increase US Reserves by 10x”; Next Energy News; 2/13/2008.)


3 comments for “FTR #635 and #636 Going Native, Parts V and VI”

  1. Catalonian separatist sentiments appear to be on the rise on Spain. It’s a trend:

    Separation anxiety: the state of independence movements in Europe

    Catalonia is just one of many regional nationalist movements seeking greater autonomy or to break away completely

    Simon Tisdall
    guardian.co.uk, Thursday 13 September 2012 13.44 EDT

    The apparent resurgence of the independence movement in Catalonia finds echoes among other minority nationalist groups in Europe.

    The Scottish National party’s plan to hold an independence referendum in 2014 places Scotland at the head of Europe’s separatist pack. While public opinion polls suggest the “no” campaign would prevail were a vote held today, attitudes may change as the referendum draws near.

    Much of the SNP leader Alex Salmond’s efforts to date have been devoted to persuading Scots that there are few risks in breaking away from the UK, and that much would remain the same. His strategy was torpedoed this week from an unexpected quarter when José Manuel Barroso, the European commission president, indicated an independent Scotland would not automatically qualify for EU membership and would have to apply like any other candidate country – a view with implications for those Catalans and others who wish for greater autonomy.

    As in Catalonia, fiscal and financial considerations will play a big part in Scotland’s decision, given current high levels of public spending and the importance of public-sector jobs. The former prime minister Gordon Brown, a Scot, said this week that breaking up the UK would lead to a “race to the bottom” on tax and public spending that would hurt ordinary people.

    Posted by Pterrafractyl | September 26, 2012, 8:36 am
  2. @Pterrafractyl: This is something worth watching, TBH…..we’ll just have to see what’s motivating these groups, so we can get an idea of who might be the good guys and who might be working for the World Crime Network.

    Posted by Steven L. | September 27, 2012, 8:04 pm
  3. It’s kind of ironic that ongoing austerity has strengthened a coalition of separatist movements that are fighting for the right to become even smaller cogs in an increasingly undemocratic austerity-centric super-state:

    Could Scottish, Catalan independence votes reshape Europe?

    By Peter Apps

    BARCELONA, Spain | Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:49pm GMT

    (Reuters) – The separatist flag of Catalonia – with its yellow and red stripes, blue triangle and white star – was a rare sight on the streets of Barcelona a decade ago. Now, it is almost ubiquitous.

    Two thousand km to the north in Scotland, the blue-and-white saltire has always been popular. But that flag too increasingly symbolises something new, that after more than 400 years within the United Kingdom Scotland may be on the verge of demanding a divorce.

    For all the focus on the risk of the euro zone falling apart, some suspect this decade may be better remembered as the time when two of Europe’s most permanent states began to break apart.

    Pro-independence parties in Scotland and Catalonia are preparing for referendums next year that they hope could see their regions secede for good – which some analysts suspect might encourage others in Europe to follow suit.

    There are considerable differences between the two regions. Scotland has always been referred to as a separate “country” within the United Kingdom, while Catalonia’s claims to self rule are rooted in the history of the Middle Ages.

    In Brussels, Scottish and Catalan parties are already forging something of an alliance with Belgian Flemish parties.

    “The global trend has been moving in this direction for some time,” Fiona Hyslop, cabinet secretary for external affairs for the pro-independence Scottish government, told Reuters recently.

    “Many countries which were not independent 20 years ago have gained their independence and are now full members of the European Union.”

    In Catalonia, one of the richest areas of Spain, there is widespread anger over what many see as too much money passing to the rest of the country. The Catalan independence movement has also proved increasingly effective at tapping into the wider sense of anger at government and big business produced by still-deepening economic woes.

    If the unexpected happens and Scotland and Catalonia do vote for independence, no-one knows what it would mean in practice.

    While those pushing for independence in both say they would want to remain within the European Union, most experts believe the new countries would have to apply for membership, which Madrid and London might be tempted to block, perhaps cutting them off at least temporarily from employment in the EU.

    Posted by Pterrafractyl | January 30, 2013, 9:55 am

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