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FTR#‘s 1281 and 1282: Interviews #18 and #19 with Jim DiEugenio and David Talbot

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FTR#1281 This pro­gram was record­ed in one, 60-minute seg­ment.

FTR#1282 This pro­gram was record­ed in one, 60-minute seg­ment.

Intro­duc­tion: Con­tin­u­ing our series of inter­views about JFK Revis­it­ed, we vis­it with both Jim DiEu­ge­nio and David Tal­bot, the author of Broth­ers and The Dev­il’s Chess­board. (We have high­light­ed infor­ma­tion from the lat­ter in FTR#‘s 8941162.)

Note that David Tal­bot is a major con­trib­u­tor to the com­men­tary in JFK Revis­it­ed.

The broad­cast high­lights the many top­ics of dis­cus­sion that David Tal­bot con­tributes dur­ing the pro­gram.

We also high­light David’s prob­lems get­ting The Dev­il’s Chess­board reviewed.

Of note, as well, is David’s dis­cus­sion of a doc­u­ment that he and Lisa Pease dis­cov­ered: On the week­end of JFK’s assas­si­na­tion, Allen Dulles had decamped to Camp Peary aka “The Farm”–a major CIA train­ing facil­i­ty. The doc­u­ment lat­er dis­ap­peared.

1.—We begin with pre­sen­ta­tion of syn­op­tic account of JFK’s polit­i­cal chal­lenge, described by David Tal­bot in the final chap­ter of the four-hour ver­sion of the doc­u­men­tary: How to do an “end-run” around the State Depart­ment, CIA and Pen­ta­gon in order to real­ize his for­eign pol­i­cy agen­da.

2.—Fol­low­ing up on dis­cus­sion from Item #1, we high­light a point David made in one of the sup­ple­men­tal dis­cus­sions in the book JFK Revis­it­ed: After an intel­li­gent, insight­ful com­ment by Jim DiEu­ge­nio about whether or not Allen Dulles was ever real­ly fired, David notes that Dulles set up what was, in effect, a shad­ow gov­ern­ment, under the aus­pices of which he reg­u­lar­ly met with Richard Helms, James Jesus Angle­ton and high-rank­ing mil­i­tary brass.

In effect, the assas­si­na­tion itself could be viewed as a “Deep State” coup d’etat by the ele­ments embod­ied in Dulles and his “shad­ow asso­ciates.”

3.   An oft-sound­ed refrain from War­ren Com­mis­sion back­ers and gen­er­al naysay­ers involves, in essence, “Well, JFK’s broth­er was Attor­ney Gen­er­al, how come he didn’t do any­thing?” Close­ly twined is anoth­er com­mon refrain: “Well, how come the Kennedy fam­i­ly nev­er did any­thing about any of this, hmmm?”

In that regard, we dis­cuss Dave Pow­ers’ and Ken­ny O’Donnell’s WWII-root­ed obser­va­tions that there was gun­fire from three sides—the side and the front, as well as from behind. We also dis­cuss, in this con­text: RFK’s call to the CIA inquir­ing if they had any­thing to do with “this hor­ror?;” RFK’s state­ment to Har­ry Ruiz Williams that one of “his” peo­ple, i.e. anti-Cas­tro Cubans, were involved; RFK aides’ state­ments that RFK did not believe the War­ren Com­mis­sion; RFK’s recog­ni­tion of the exten­sive mob­ster ties of Jack Ruby; RFK’s and Kennedy family’s com­mu­ni­ca­tion via Bill Wal­ton to Mr. Bol­shakov of the Sovi­et Union that they knew a right-wing domes­tic con­spir­a­cy (obvi­ous­ly linked to the CIA) was behind the assas­si­na­tion; The fur­ther com­ment to Bol­shakov via Wal­ton that, when he was able to ascend to the White House, RFL would con­tin­ue his brother’s détente poli­cies; We add that, although not dis­cussed in doc­u­men­tary, RFK planned to re-open the inves­ti­ga­tion into his brother’s mur­der.

4.—Cuba: David and Jim review the fact that the Bay of Pigs plan was des­tined to fail. We then high­light: How Allen Dulles felt that Marines, Air Force would be called in by JFK to top­ple Cas­tro; JFK’s con­vic­tion, along with RFK’s, that CIA had lied to them; JFK’s reduc­tion by 20% of CIA bud­get, vow to shat­ter the Agency into 1,000 pieces and his fir­ing of [CIA offi­cials] Allen Dulles, Richard Bis­sell, and Gen­er­al Charles Cabell; The FBI’s dis­cov­ery of CIA/Mafia plots to kill Cas­tro led by the CIA’s William King Har­vey and the Mob’s John­ny Rosel­li; The fact that the Agency told JFK the plots had stopped, but they hadn’t; Although not dis­cussed in the pro­grams, the fates of Rosel­li when Con­gress was inquir­ing into this morass (found dis­mem­bered in a steel drum in Bis­cayne Bay) and we should also remem­ber that Sam “Mo Mo” Gian­cana was found mur­dered around the time of his sched­uled Con­gres­sion­al tes­ti­mo­ny (he was shot to death at his res­i­dence while it was appar­ent­ly under FBI sur­veil­lance).

5.—Next, we high­light Dulles’ inclu­sion on War­ren Com­mis­sion: We take note of LBJ’s asser­tion that RFK want­ed AD on Com­mis­sion; AD then kept the Agency informed of key devel­op­ments.

6.—We then detail Rep­re­sen­ta­tive Ger­ald Ford’s inclu­sion on WC: Ford was close to the FBI; The FBI did 80% of the foot­work for War­ren Com­mis­sion.

7.—We then review the OAS attempts on De Gaulle’s life, includ­ing (among oth­er top­ics): JFK’s speech to the Sen­ate about Alge­ria; Allen Dulles and the Agency’s appar­ent involve­ment with the OAS plots against De Gaulle, includ­ing a plot to poi­son De Gaulle; JFK told the French that he might not be able to con­trol his own intel­li­gence ser­vices; We also review OAS assas­sin Jean Souetre’s pres­ence in Dal­las on 11/22/’63.

8.—Next, David and Jim tack­le the sub­ject of the Con­go, includ­ing: The CIA’s elim­i­na­tion of Lumum­ba and the fact that Dulles didn’t tell JFK about it—he learned about the killing from Adlai Steven­son; U.S. diplo­mat Edmund Gul­lion told JFK that U.N. Sec­re­tary Gen­er­al Dag Hammarskjold’s death was no acci­dent.

9.—We then revierw JFK and the Cuban Mis­sile Cri­sis, includ­ing the President’s con­fronta­tion with much of the State Depart­ment, CIA and the Pen­ta­gon.

10.—The next top­ic is JFK’s peace ini­tia­tive. Top­ics includ­ed: The Atmos­pher­ic Test Ban Treaty, fol­lowed by the June ’63 speech at Amer­i­can Uni­ver­si­ty call­ing for peace with the USSR and acknowl­edg­ing the Sovi­et Union’s deci­sive role in the defeat of Nazi Ger­many; JFK’s pro­pos­al for joint space explo­ration with USSR; We also review the 1961 push by the Joint Chiefs to launch a first strike against USSR—JFK com­ment­ed after this: “And we call our­selves the human race.”

11.—We con­clude by high­light­ing the effects of the assas­si­na­tion on the U.S.: The many fun­da­men­tal changes in for­eign pol­i­cy (Viet­nam, Indone­sia, Cuba, Latin Amer­i­ca, among them); The effect on the country’s atti­tude.


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