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FTR#‘s 1289 and 1290: Interview #‘s 26 and 27 with Jim DiEugenio and Lisa Pease

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FTR#1289 This pro­gram was record­ed in one, 60-minute seg­ment.

FTR#1290 This pro­gram was record­ed in one, 60-minute seg­ment.

Intro­duc­tion: This broad­cast con­cludes our vis­its with Jim DiEugenio–author of Des­tiny Betrayed and JFK Revis­it­ed–select­ed by Oliv­er Stone to write the screen­play for his lat­est doc­u­men­tary.

In these last two pro­grams, we are joined by Lisa Pease, a major con­trib­u­tor to JFK Revis­it­ed and the author of, among oth­er titles, A Lie Too Big to Fail.

We open the pro­grams with a pair of “ide­o­log­i­cal book­ends” pre­sent­ed by Lisa Pease, which frame the fun­da­men­tal dynam­ic of JFK’s for­eign and nation­al secu­ri­ty pol­i­cy, the nega­tion of which was pri­ma­ry in the moti­va­tion of his killers.

1.–Ele­ments of Analy­sis and Dis­cus­sion Include: A quote from Sukarno Lisa presents on p. 352 of the book of JFK Revis­it­ed: How JFK under­stood the non-aligned ori­en­ta­tion desired by much of the devel­op­ing world, in con­trast to the per­spec­tive of the Dulles broth­ers; Then, we “jump” in a man­ner of speak­ing, to dis­cus­sion the wide­spread memo­ri­al­iza­tion of JFK around the world–the stat­ues, build­ings and plazas named after JFK, as well as the open grief dis­played by Sukarno, Khr­uschev, Nass­er and many oth­ers; Pete Hamill’s expe­ri­ence in Mex­i­co after his car broke down, where he saw a pic­ture of JFK along­side the Vir­gin of Guadalupe; Ghan­ian leader Kwame Nkrumah’s reac­tion to see­ing Allen Dulles’ name on the War­ren Report—“whitewash; ” The sig­nif­i­cance of the book The Ugly Amer­i­can for JFK and how that was emblem­at­ic of Kennedy’s pol­i­cy toward devel­op­ing world; Review of Indonesia’s Sukarno and Allen Dulles; Lega­cy of ’58 coup attempt against Sukarno; Dulles’ state­ment to JFK about Sukarno “We’re try­ing to over­throw him;” The saga of Allen Pope a CIA pilot shot down in the unsuc­cess­ful coup attempt against Sukarno; JFK’s attempts at nor­mal­iza­tion with Sukarno; How JFK’s per­spec­tive was shared with Sukarno—“Both real­ly want­ed inde­pen­dence for the nations of the world.” (p. 353 of the book of JFK Revis­it­ed); JFK, Sukarno, Ike and West Irian/Papua (includes brief expla­na­tion of what that area was, for the edi­fi­ca­tion of younger mem­bers of the audi­ence); Kennedy bro­kers deal to cement the Dutch-owned West Papua with Indone­sia, to have tak­en place in 1969, by which time JFK, RFK and Sukarno are gone; West Papua giv­en to Indone­sia in ’63, by which JFK’s death had already arranged, as was the demise of Sukarno; Dis­cus­sion of the “Gold­en Moun­tain” of West Papua—Freeport Mining’s exploita­tion of that mountain’s tremen­dous min­er­al wealth; Review of Clay Shaw, Fer­rie and their trip to Cana­da to secure  nick­el min­ing in Cuba for Freeport (this was an ele­ment of inves­ti­ga­tion that linked Fer­rie and Shaw for Gar­ri­son.

2.—Fur­ther Ele­ments of Dis­cus­sion and Analy­sis Include: How Water­gate and Sey­mour Hersh’s dis­clo­sure of intel­li­gence com­mu­ni­ty spy­ing on Amer­i­can cit­i­zens led to the Church and Pike Com­mit­tee inves­ti­ga­tions; Ger­ald Ford’s autho­riza­tion of the Rock­e­feller Com­mis­sion, which eclipsed many events, includ­ing what Ford described as “assas­si­na­tions; ” Lyman Lemnitzer’s pres­ence on that com­mis­sion, along with Rea­gan, who wouldn’t extra­dite Edgar Eugene Bradley to New Orleans for ques­tion­ing by Gar­ri­son; Ford’s mem­ber­ship in the War­ren Com­mis­sion; The Pike and Church Committee’s  con­clu­sions that CIA is a rogue element/elephant; Church Com­mit­tee and CIA/Mafia attempts to kill Cas­tro: The coin­ci­den­tal 1967 tim­ing of a Jack Ander­son col­umn about the CIA/Mafia attempts to kill JFK and New Orleans’ DA Jim Garrison’s inves­ti­ga­tion; Review of the Otto Otep­ka case, seen against the back­ground of CIA internecine war­fare in which CIA direc­tor William Col­by was try­ing to oust James Jesus Angle­ton as head of CIA coun­ter­in­tel­li­gence: The many defec­tors to the USSR with mil­i­tary back­grounds and the Otep­ka inquiry about which were real defec­tors; CIA’s drilling into Otepka’s safe; The burn­ing of Otepka’s doc­u­ments; Otepka’s ouster from State short­ly before JFK hit; Otep­ka tells reporter Sarah McClen­don he knew who killed JFK; Dis­cus­sion of Egypt­ian leader Nasser—How the with­draw­al of U.S. financ­ing of the Aswan Dam led to the nation­al­iza­tion of the Suez Canal; War­ren Commission’s and House Select Committee’s inves­ti­ga­tions of “Oswald” in Mex­i­co City; The pres­ence of at least two “Oswalds” in Mex­i­co City—one blond and short, the oth­er crew-cut stocky, ear­ly mid­dle-aged; Lack of pho­tos of “Oswald;” Dif­fer­ent lin­guis­tic mas­tery of “Oswald” in Mex­i­co City—excellent Span­ish, bad Russian—NOT Oswald who was flu­ent in Russ­ian; 11/19/63—Richard Helms tried to con­vince JFK of Cuban “plot” to export rev­o­lu­tion to Venezuela, so that Kennedy would invade; The pre­pos­ter­ous van­ish­ing ser­i­al num­ber on the “Cuban” rifle with a spe­cial ink, after the appli­ca­tion of which the ser­i­al num­ber would “dis­ap­pear for­ev­er;” Angle­ton and Gar­ri­son investigation—Angleton was inves­ti­gat­ing who Gar­ri­son was inves­ti­gat­ing; Angle­ton was check­ing out jury mem­bers, sug­ges­tive of attempts at jury tam­per­ing; CIA offi­cial Ray Rocca’s pro­nounce­ment on Garrison’s case against Clay Shaw—“He will get a con­vic­tion;” Review of ear­li­er dis­cus­sion with David Tal­bot, in which we dis­cussed a doc­u­ment Lisa and he had dug up about Allen Dulles going to the CIA’s Camp Peary train­ing facil­i­ty on the week­end of the assas­si­na­tion; The sub­se­quent dis­ap­pear­ance of the doc­u­ment.

3.—The pro­gram con­cludes with Mr. Emory’s read­ing of Jack Ruby’s tes­ti­mo­ny before the War­ren Com­mis­sion on June 7 of 1964.


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